Welcome back to A Slut’s Guide to Happiness, where your body is perfectly imperfect and it’s safe to be as sexual, kinky, queer or slutty as you want. 

I’m your host, Vanessa Cliff and today we’re going to be talking with Orion Pax, who you’ve met through previous episodes. He is Cliff Media’s Chief Visual Officer and a great wealth of creative smutty ideas.  

He’s also been going through a life transition, coming out of the closet after many decades of anonymous gay sex, he’s now openly dating people of all genders. He asked me if he could ask some questions for advice, and I thought, this is such a common experience, this could be a great conversation to share publicly. 

I have to share with you first what I accidentally put on for this podcast. I just grabbed something out of the closet without thinking and of course it’s coincidentally the most lesbian stereotype shirt I own. What would you call this, like a lumberjack plaid shirt? 

Orion: 

Buffalo plain, yep, flannel. 

Vanessa: 

I’m ready to go pick up girls from the lesbian bar. We have a plan. Let me know if you want to join us. 

Orion: 

So I’ve heard you say about me, I get the term, “baby queer”. I guess it means I’m new. 

Vanessa: 

Oh that’s just an affectionate term I’ve heard some people use to describe their experience as they’re coming into the world of being queer. 

And of course that is self-defined. So if you wanted to talk about your experience with queerness as being multiple decades long, you absolutely could, even if you weren’t then calling it queerness or getting public affirmation of your identity. But it was part of your experience. Now you’re newly out and stepping into queer community in a more public way. 

Orion: 

Yeah I think I sometimes still struggle with imposter syndrome because I came from a very closeted bi world where it’s always in the shadows. Now it makes me wonder, do I belong? Am I in this club or not in this club? 

Vanessa: 

I need you to sing the song for this though. You ready? 

Orion: 

Let’s do it. Baby queer doo doo doo doo, baby gay. 

Vanessa: 

Yeah, we were initially talking about this song as “baby gay” and then “baby queer” instead. Both are totally valid, but I think gay generally means you’re exclusively interested in people of the same sex, whereas you’re interested in people of all different genders. So queer is a more inclusive term for that. 

I think what’s really important that you’re touching on there is that there shouldn’t be a “club”. One of the things that’s beautiful to me about queerness is that it’s an umbrella of freedom. It’s anything that’s not normal. Come enjoy the umbrella. All of those rules about straightness, about who gets to do what and who, who should fuck, let’s forget that. Let’s just go be free. 

So if our goal is to be free within the bounds of queerness, then creating a boundary around who isn’t okay and who’s saying the correct words and who’s behaving in the correct way according to the proper identity, all of that seems super counterintuitive. It seems against the point of what queerness should bring for people’s freedom. 

However, I also think the reality that people who are queer almost always struggle with are stigmas and trauma. We live in a homophobic and transphobic world. To get to the place of feeling comfortable identifying as queer means you have gone through some kind of personal struggle of different kinds, depending on where you are in the world. 

I think a lot of times people react to those struggles with self-protection. The story can sometimes become, the way I keep myself safe in this unsafe world is by creating containers, by judging other people and gatekeeping who’s in and who’s out. 

I think if you can enter any queer space with an open heart, people respond to that, sharing in the humility of figuring it out together. Being humans fucking and confusing I see. 

Orion: 

I came across this profile. I was looking at people on dating sites. I came across this profile and I was very turned on by this person. They are trans masculine, queer, female to male. I read this profile and felt like we had a lot in common. I wanted to message this person, but I started to get a little self-conscious. 

This would be the first time that I’ve messaged someone from this perspective, from this new version of myself wanting to interact with somebody like that on a dating profile. It’s not the same as an anonymous hookup. I don’t know if it’s the same approach as messaging a woman in the straight world. I’m in my own head about this. Do I need to change my approach? 

Do you have any advice? I haven’t sent this person a message because I wanted to ask you about this. I don’t want to come across as like this is my first time at the dance. 

Vanessa: 

Can I dance with you is also a great line. I love this, I love that you found someone that you are interested in. You’re now not just responding to those anonymous ads but also messaging someone who is going to look at your profile and see who you are. 

You’re not just saying, want to come fuck me on a Tuesday? You’re saying, do you want to go out for a date and see if maybe there’s interest in a relationship? That’s a whole other question. 

I have several thoughts on this. Even though I have been queer my entire adult life, interacting with women since I was 14, having sex with women since I was 14, and yet society doesn’t give us scripts for how people should interact sexually and in relationships that are not heteronormative, so it can still be harder.

Whether they’re always the best to use or not, there are still lines that many people say in heteronormative contexts and expectations about who plays what roles. There’s also an assumption that people are straight, whereas it’s harder to know if someone is queer and if they’re going to be attracted to your gender. 

So despite having longer years of experience with women, it is still more challenging for me to flirt with and pick up a woman or a queer person because there aren’t social norms to fall back on. 

I think that’s important to acknowledge, that what you’re feeling is normal and is not just about being a baby queer. It’s also just about existing outside of the traditional rom-com world. 

I think there’s something beautiful in that challenge though, because you get to move away from and think more critically about some of the heteronormative pickup lines and approaches that might not be particularly valuable, even in straight interactions. Like ,”hey dude, can I slide up in your cunt?” 

How can you approach someone as a whole person, in a way that’s a blank slate without making assumptions. There’s no one right way to approach this. And vulnerability is helpful. I think being open about the fact that you don’t know and you’re new to this, that’s totally okay. 

Also I recommend expressing that you related to some of the things they were describing on their profile, maybe mention a specific thing you related to. I think it’s okay to ask questions, always. 

You don’t need to jump into asking about gender and sexual orientation from the beginning. Even if that might be new and scary for you, unless they’re also baby queer, that’s probably not the central aspect of connection for them. I would recommend just initiating conversations about normal topics that you’d ask anyone you want to connect with. 

Orion: 

I used to identify as straight and then I was closeted bi, and then I started to use the term heteroflexible, and now I’m openly pansexual. So I’m on a journey, I’ve always continuing to evolve. I’m always going to continue to evolve because I’m human. In terms of an online dating profile, are there words or phrases that I might not realize could come off as offensive or off-putting? 

Vanessa: 

Sure. I think it’s difficult to identify any particular set of things that will make everyone upset or that are desirable or undesirable to everyone because the queer umbrella is so huge. For example, there are some trans women who enjoy “tranny” or other feminizing stereotypes that are often found in mainstream porn. 

By contrast, there are a lot of trans women who consider this transphobic language. In general, I don’t want to perpetuate what could be harmful stereotypes and hurtful language for some people, so I would advise not to use words like this to describe transgender people.  

I also think language that suggests there are only two genders can erase people who are genderqueer or non-binary. That’s one of the reasons why bisexual can be confusing to people because if there are only two genders, it implies that some people out there don’t exist. 

Heteroflexible is another word that can be challenging for some folks. It’s like you’re trying to hold onto heterosexuality, afraid to move away from straightness. If what you mean is simply that you’re only attracted to some people of the same gender or some genderqueer or transgender people, that’s a given and no additional caveat is necessary. Even if you’re a straight guy, you’re not going to be attracted to every cisgender woman. 

Orion: 

I’ve noticed different terms when it comes to trans* or non-binary genitals. Is that more of an individual conversation? Like I’ve seen some profiles where they say, I don’t refer to my dick as a dick. How do you know what people call their body parts? 

Vanessa: 

It’s always good to ask how people want their body parts to be called. That’s true with anyone. This is something we’re trying to normalize in Cliff Media too. It’s totally okay to ask questions, like, how would you like to refer to your downstairs or your sluthole. These days, I prefer people refer to my sluthole as a cunt. So even if someone asks, what would you like me to call your pussy? I’d say, fantastic, thanks for asking me, I like to call it my cunt. 

This is a great example of how queerness can teach us to have conversations that straight culture is often afraid of having but should be having anyway. Because I can’t assume what’s in your brain. 

So for example, I know several people assigned male at birth who have not gone on hormones or had surgery – not all transgender people do – but who identify as having breasts and like having their breasts played with. So you might ask, how do you refer to your chest, are these your titties or your boobs? I know some people who refer to their penis as a clit. Some people who describe their vagina as a sluthole rather than a pussy or cunt because they do not identify as having female body parts. 

None of it is universal though. It’s all about asking questions. Honestly, I think it’s just important that you have good intent and a humble desire to learn, and you’re not spending all of your conversational time on it. Because I think at the end of the day, everybody wants to be able to connect with other humans for the whole of who they are, rather than being a specimen. 

Gender identity and body parts are just one tiny part of the conversation in getting to know a whole person. It’s even a tiny part of sex. Like, if you’re about to do some hot dirty talk, you might ask, what word would you like me to use? 

Orion: 

I sometimes worry about approaching someone who is transgender, I don’t want to come across as if I’m looking for an experience. I want to approach people if I’m genuinely interested in them. 

Vanessa: 

Yeah, I think it comes back to the idea of whole personhood. It’s similar to the idea that pornstar whores also brush their teeth, pull on their pants, do all the normal life shit, right? And people who are trans have cats and dogs and parents and jobs. We all have life stories and emotional complexity, which is far more interesting to interact with anyway. 

I don’t think it has to be overly complicated. If you’re looking at a profile of someone you like, then you connect around shared interests, values and attraction. Your mind and souls connect and you experience sexual desire regardless of each of your identities.

Orion: 

In terms of pronouns, it seems like most people list their pronouns on your profile, but if you encounter someone in person, I guess that’s another conversation to have when you meet someone? What’s a respectful way of asking? 

Vanessa: 

Yeah, I think it’s a question we should all get in the habit of asking each other. What pronouns do you use? Sometimes you’re going to fuck up, you can just apologize without making a big deal out of it and do better the next time. We just do the best we can to respect each other and how we each identify in the world. 

Orion: 

This is my last question for you. I was having sex with someone recently and we only had oral sex. We didn’t go all the way. We didn’t fuck. I described this to someone as us not having sex. And they gave me that feedback that that’s because of straight normative assumptions. So I was in my head, it felt like, yeah, you’re right, that was sex. I’m coming from a different view now. 

Since I’m new to this, I want to explore sexuality with people of all genders and I’m trying to unlearn my assumptions about what sex is, because it doesn’t require that my dick go in something for us to have sex. So I’m hoping you can give me suggestions on how I can reframe that heteronormative view of sex for me as a baby queer. 

Vanessa: 

Yeah, I would agree with what you’re saying, what that person said to you. When I was lesbian, I mostly had oral sex. So if that wasn’t sex, then I guess I was having really good orgasms for inexplicable reasons for about eight years. Even in straight contexts, some cis women don’t like vaginal penetration, or some women only orgasm from receiving oral and don’t feel like sex is complete without it. 

So there are many ways, even within the context of cisgender straight sex, where having conversations about the expectations of sex acts that make up sex would be helpful. If you add the context that people have all different bodies, body parts and genders, some people have body parts that go in other body parts, some people like to use them and some don’t. Then sex can be expanded into a beautifully broad thing. 

Instead of going in with a plan and a mission – penis has been inserted into the vagina, cum is in the vagina, mission accomplished, we have had sex – instead, we can explore. Maybe today I’m interested in pinching your nipples and sucking your asshole. Maybe next time you’re going to finger my ass. Whatever. None of those acts are meant as stepping stones to something else, they’re all just pleasure and exploration. 

I think the model of “getting to bases” suggests that there is some kind of linear progression of sex acts leading toward something. There’s something really freeing about being able to just interact with another person’s body however feels good. 

We can ask each other about what feels good on a particular day or night. We won’t make any assumptions about what’s going to happen the next night because of what happened before. We can just be open to exploring. It’s also fun to ask your partner or partners, what kind of sex do you want to be having? What do you want to do next time? What did you like or not like? 

There are always a huge range of possibilities. Next time we could bring a strap-on, or next time I want to be the one on top. There are so many things to explore and question you can ask each other. 

And as to the original question, I think it’s best in general to assume that some kind of sexual interaction was sex, because otherwise you risk offending someone. The other person may feel like, what do you mean that’s not sex? We just had the hottest sex of my life. 

Orion: 

Yeah, I could see that. 

Vanessa: 

Asking questions is, more than anything else, not being afraid. There’s so many ways to ask questions in a sexy tone of voice, vulnerability, or even silliness, where the questions is a source of connection, not a disruption. 

One of the hottest times that anyone has ever kissed me was with a partner a long time ago. We were on a date and finally they said, “I’m really bad at touch escalation, can I just kiss you?” 

I thought it was so adorable that they were authentic about what they were feeling. They were trying to ask for consent but didn’t know how to do that subtly, so they just asked for what they wanted. My heart melted at their honesty. 

So whenever you’re asking little questions like, How would you like me to refer to your body? What would feel good for you? What would you like to do next sexually? How do you like to engage in sexual roleplays? All of those questions can be hot. 

I hope this has been a little useful for you. Thank you for bringing us your vulnerable questions. 

Orion: 

Yeah, thank you for answering them. 

Vanessa: 

This has been another edition of A Slut’s Guide to Happiness with your host, Vanessa Cliff and your baby queer, baby gay, Orion Pax III. 

You can find us wherever you get your podcasts, including Apple and Spotify, as well as on cliffmediaproductions.com. 

If you’re over the age of 18, you can also check out our video content on our website, cliffmediaproductions.com. 

And most of all, I invite you to join us in the pleasure of being awkwardly human, naked and without pretense. 

Let’s get free.