Welcome back to A Slut’s Guide to Happiness, where your body is perfectly imperfect and it’s safe to be as sexual, kinky, queer, or slutty as you want. 

Today we’re going to be talking with Charle, who these days is Cliff Media’s Community Resource Guide helping people who are in the Cliff Media community figure out how they can pursue access to basic needs like housing, food and employment security, because we know that transphobia and homophobia result in a lot of people in our community with difficulty accessing basic needs.

I’m so grateful that Charle is a person who can help people advocate for themselves in getting the basic needs, because everyone should be able to live with security. That is the foundation for being able to explore other aspects of life, to get free and happy. 

Today Charle is going to describe a different aspect of her life, in BDSM kink. 

You probably know that I’ve been a kinky motherfucker for quite a while. There are some things that I’m really familiar with. For example, kink is not fun or hot or safe if there’s not consent involved. That means negotiating and understanding boundaries. The “hell yes”. Knowing in advance of the scene and being able to respect whenever a safe word is said. 

I also know that sexual health is really important, talking about things like STI testing or sexual health status helps to have a healthier, safer, and more enjoyable experience. 

And Charle has recently been telling me about other aspects of health and safety in kink that I had no idea about.

So I’m excited for us to learn together about ways that kink can be not only fun, but life-giving and healthy. That allows us to be sustainable, kinky motherfuckers in this world. 

Charle, thanks for joining us and sharing your expertise. I want to start with, on a personal level, how’d you get involved? Why do you like kink?

Charle: 

That’s a hard one. Not even really a hard one. Just, where to start. I guess my start in kink happened around like 2019 or 2018 when I first moved to the Portland area myself. 

I’d always been kind of interested in it from a very young age. I stumbled on a pornographic website that involved kink, and it was one of the first feelings I got towards something sexual that I might be into. I felt from a very young age that I was asexual and regular sex didn’t really have a whole lot of intrigue for me. But kink was completely different. 

I started here in the Portland scene more than anything else. I originally started just by going to open kink parties and stuff where I had a lot of unsuccess. 

But I learned, as one does, that kink is more of a personal thing between the people that are indulging in it. While those big parties were fun, the best process and the more fun process for me is building the repertoire and relationship with an individual in order to get to those parties. 

Even then, when I started forming more individual relationships in BDSM, I stopped going to the bigger places and would just be like, hey, do you want to get tied up in my house? And then we’ll do some impact play. Fuck yes.

It’s something I indulge when I can and I hate when I miss out. 

Vanessa: 

Out of curiosity, you said “unsuccess” in those parties. What do you mean by that? 

Charle: 

I just was in my own head too much. I found it very intimidating to approach people, especially people in the kink scene for a really long time. While I really appreciated people’s interactions with me in those big scenes, it was just way too much for me. It was a bit off-putting at first. 

You have to grow a little bit of a thicker skin in those scenarios, especially if it’s your first time and you don’t know what you’re walking into. You have to let go of a lot of misconceptions. 

Vanessa: 

I think that one of the misconceptions that I’ve heard from other people about kink is that it’s basically people just beating each other up. 

Charle: 

That entails some of it. But it’s not what kink is about whatsoever or BDSM really. I like to think of it as I have made a relationship with this person and trusted this person enough to allow them to beat me up in the way that I want to be beat up. 

That’s very different because that’s more of a personal want rather than just because someone likes hurting that person, and that person likes being hurt. 

Vanessa: 

Yeah. You mentioned you like being tied up. You like impact play. Is there anything else on your list of kinks that you enjoy? 

Charle: 

I really enjoy electro play. There are certain devices, like wands or stim devices that you can buy. Its job is to provide an electric shock in different and fun ways. That’s really great for folks that have a little bit of nerve damage, because it always feels a little different. It’s a nice swirl of pain. 

Vanessa: 

Is there anything else that you were going to describe in the list? 

Charle: 

Yeah. So I do like needle play and cutting play, but I am at risk. I don’t heal very well. So that’s something that I have to take into consideration. And it’s one of those things that I just, I’ve learned I might have to appreciate from afar.

I really love being bound. I think there’s a certain erotic element to it. And there’s a little bit of a brat in me, too. I like being tied up. I kind of like wiggling my way out of rope and untying myself when someone’s not looking. It’s fun. I think it’s one of those, I don’t know, je ne sais quoi. You don’t know why you find it appealing. It just happens to be. 

Vanessa: 

I don’t know if it’s true for you, but one of the things I like about it is playing with the power dynamics. 

Charle: 

Yeah, I agree. I feel, a lot of my life, I have to be in control. So being helpless is such a fun dynamic, when you can afford to step out of it, I should say, because being helpless all the time fucking sucks. 

Vanessa: 

Right. It’s that balance of being a powerhouse in your daily life and then having a moment, a container, where you can choose to offer over your power to someone else, or be vulnerable. It’s a source of connection. 

Charle: 

Yeah, very much so. 

Vanessa: 

One of the first things that I remember you telling me about was bruising. Especially when I was on medication, I bruised a lot. Even a little bit of spanking would leave my ass all covered in bruises. What are some things that, if people don’t want bruises, they can do before, during or after kink?

Charle: 

Definitely, taking care of oneself is really important. Eating the right foods and hydrating well in advance and staying away from alcohol and things like blood thinners. The thinner your blood, the easier you bruise. 

There are specific medications I have taken in my life and that I’m currently on right now that will leave markings if there’s any kind of abrasive play. I have to keep in contact with that, especially since not all of my life is kink and BDSM-related. Being out in public every single day, sometimes it’s a little hard to explain why you have grab marks on your hands, or why you have rope burns on your chest and upper arms.

It’s something you have to be very cognizant about what type of play you’re doing and how your body is going to react to it. Whether that be take a couple days off so you heal better if you are to folk that heal like really, really well, as I know there’s those Wolverine types out there that you hit them with everything and they just don’t seem to bruise, or they get a bruise for like five hours, and the next day it’s gone.

I wish I could say there was one specific way to stop yourself from bruising. It’s just going to be one of those things that you have to experiment with yourself and find out what works for you. 

Eating things like high protein, like chicken, can help because it helps repair muscle tear and muscle use. It’s doing whatever you can to make sure your body is in a good enough condition in order to play.

Vanessa: 

You mentioned there was a cream that you could put on your body? 

Charle: 

Yeah, yeah. Well, both. There are creams that you can put on your body should you wish to heal, like a nice CBD skin cream or muscle cream and stuff like that.

And then there are other things like blood thinners and creams that you can use should you want to bruise more. That is a type of kink and BDSM play. Some people like to get the biggest bruise on their ass they can and it is fun. Don’t have a job where you sit down. That’s my explanation on butt bruises.

Vanessa: 

You have mentioned blood thinners a little bit. What are some of the common blood thinners that people maybe using? 

Charle: 

Oh, like your everyday kind of like Tylenol and Aspirin. Again, you shouldn’t overindulge in these things. You should probably take 1 or 2 before your scene, up to like an hour before. And that’ll stain your blood enough that you should be able to give yourself a decent bruise. You’re taking medication, so do not overindulge in this. 

I am not an expert in this by any means, so please do a lot of reading. And in any kind of kink scenario where you find yourself wanting to try it, make sure you’re educated about the risks beforehand. 

There are so many risks throughout BDSM that it would take multiple interviews to cover like what specifically for each type of kink play. But if you read enough about it and you listen to enough people and you talk to people who are really versed in this type of play, then you’ll get the information you want. 

Vanessa: 

Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate two things that you said there. One is if you are wanting to avoid bruises, then don’t take things like Tylenol and Advil, but if you’re wanting to achieve bruises, then you can take a little bit of that before, So people can tailor their safety measures to whatever their goals are. 

Then the other thing you mentioned was being really skilled and knowledgeable before going into things. I know that one area where that can be particularly true is in rope. Can you describe some of that for us? 

Charle: 

Yeah, absolutely. Rope is very beautiful in the way it’s intricate, there’s a power dynamic between someone offering up their power and somebody trusted enough in order to tie it. 

However, when you’re suspending anything, especially a human body, which has a lot of ligaments and tissues, rope can be very dangerous because you’re holding up, you know, in my case, 160 pounds. If anything happens, you’re now holding up 160 pounds in the place of the body that was not designed to support that type of weight.

You can tear tendons, you can have dislocations in bones. You can have compressed nerves. It’s a very dangerous form of kink, which is why, especially when it comes to rope suspension, you should take time and take classes and build that knowledge pool first, even if that knowledge pool is just lying on the ground. 

I know it’s really hot to want to be tied in these super complex positions, and it really is. But that’s the end result after years of practice. That’s the equivalent of someone doing the splits in yoga. If you try it right away, you will hurt yourself. So please, approach cautiously, especially things like rope. It looks pretty harmless but it is not. 

Vanessa: 

Yeah. I was tied initially once and ended up pretty seriously damaging my shoulder for about six months. So I appreciate you saying that, reminding folks that these are skills people are developing. 

Can you talk to me a little about blood play? You mentioned needles and cutting. What are some considerations there?

Charle: 

Are you talking about healing or just the play itself? 

Vanessa: 

All of it. Before, during and after. 

Charle: 

Well, the play itself is something a little bit more primal. I don’t really understand why I enjoy it so much myself. It should be something everyone should be like, no thank you, having another person cut me open. 

It’s not like surgical play where my entire arm is splayed open, it’s just little scratches and tips of the knife. That can add a certain form of eroticism and play, like having clothes cut away and leaving some markings afterwards. 

It is dangerous, especially, as the person wielding the knife because you are completely held legally liable for any type of harm that you might cause that individual. It is something that requires a lot less pressure than you would think. And again, this is a knife against somebody’s skin, so it can really hurt somebody. 

Needle play as well. If you hit a nerve, it’s incredibly painful. You can hit an artery or a blood vessel and cause a lot of bleeding. Know where your next emergency room is if you’re into kink play. 

Blood and needle play is one of the more common forbidden BDSM kinks. And there are lots of tastings from individuals who are quite well versed in it should anyone wish to try it. I absolutely recommend it sometimes, but only in a situation that is safe and comfortable.

Vanessa: 

How do you navigate things like, HIV risk or I don’t know, risk of other infection with needles?

Charle: 

So with needles, make sure that they are hygienic, that they are never used before. This means you see the needle being pulled out of the sealed package and then used only on you.

I know a lot of people like to make really intricate patterns with needles and stuff like that, and there is a definite risk of infection and contamination. So I don’t like playing with individuals who I don’t know what their status is. 

I understand that some folks have gotten sick out there and my heart goes out to them. As a person who is immuno-compromised, I ask that all my partners be tested and show me the results within about three weeks of play. 

A lot of my BDSM dates tend to kind of go south when I ask for that because it is a lot of prep for a lot of folks who just want to be doing that kind of play on the spur of the moment that day. I do not have that fortunate ability, so I have to plan my way out in advance. 

Again, this is a very serious type of health risk should you choose to be involved in it. BDSM is not for the faint of heart. But it is a fantastic way to play if you view the risks are worth it. And the risks, by the way, are far less than doing things like combat sports. You are far less likely to get hurt doing BDSM than you would doing something like boxing. Just be aware of what those risks are. 

Vanessa: 

Sure. Yeah I appreciate that. This is a lot more about harm reduction than about saying this is scary, don’t do it. 

Charle: 

Yeah exactly. I love being beat but at the same time I don’t like being injured. 

Vanessa: 

For sure. I’d like to talk a little bit about emotional health. For example, I love playing with CNC and usually I find it hot and healing, but there have been a couple of times where it can go south and I have to say “blahhh stop!” 

Charle: 

That’s not “blahh stop” by the way, that is your mind telling you at the moment that this is not something that you want to do. So you should listen to it without any kind of shame. 

Vanessa: 

Totally true. Yes. I use “red” or “pause” to safe word out of it, and then have whoever was fucking me hold me.

I know that everybody navigates that differently. I wonder if you can talk to us about some of the diversity of emotional experiences that can come up, and different ways that people can take care of themselves in these situations? 

Charle: 

Yeah, absolutely. I think when a lot of people think of BDSM, they just think about the play aspects of it.

There’s a whole world of prepping for things like being in the right headspace in order to be vulnerable, in order to be hurt. That headspace can be really difficult to achieve. I don’t really recommend kink and BDSM for folks that, during the moment, are having huge anxiety swells and things like that. 

Panic is a real thing and when it sets in, your brain doesn’t understand that you are having fun. What it’s telling you is something is wrong and it wants out of that situation immediately. So listen to it regardless. If you had fun five seconds ago, if your brain goes, wait, listen to that brain and take care of yourself. 

I know a lot of people don’t want to risk disappointing the people that they are playing with, and they don’t want to risk the disappointment of themselves, especially when sex is rare in their lives. But being present enough to understand your current mental state is important, I believe, to long-term BDSM practice and play. 

Doing things that make you happy beforehand and after, to combat drop, is really important. For those of you who don’t know what drop is, it’s a mental state after you’ve had some sort of play. A lot of folks tend to get kind of depressed, or they get withdrawn within themselves and they need a moment to like, recollect. Some folks get really depressed and cry. Some folks get like, super happy and then want to be left alone. 

Understand that about yourself. Understand that that may be how you react. Understanding what to do in those situations is really important as well.

When I get drop, I need to be surrounded by something really fluffy. I need some silence and I need comfort. And if that’s like cuddling with somebody, then I want to express that before scenes, that this is how I recover. Sometimes I just need to curl and be left alone because I’m recovering from being beat for an hour and a half. And that’s a big mental toll as well. 

So keep in mind that you should really take some time before play to find out what comforts you and then to make that a part of your play immediately afterwards. That’s what you start doing. Self-care or eating chocolate, eating junk food some people like use to combat their drop.

That being said, there’s also a world of difference and benefits in being in the right mind space before your play and kind of finding your way and groove into doing that. 

Normally, if I know that I’m going to be doing a really big play scene, the morning of, I like to have out, I typically don’t eat sweet things for breakfast, but I like to have a really overly indulgent, happy breakfast. I like to go for a really big walk or do something that really makes me happy, like maybe playing the guitar for a while or something uplifting and to carry that mood through. I’ve always found that it really helps me. 

Also if someone cancels on you, you’ve already had a good day, so you have something to prevent you from a mental blow. And by the way, people will cancel on you for some dates. It does happen. Don’t feel bad. It’s just life. Something came up the person has to attend to, or they could be themselves having that same type of downfall like I was just discussing. 

They may not be in the right mood, or they may not be in the right mood to help themselves after play because down happens for tops too. It’s not just bottoms suffering from drop, and it’s not just bottoms that have to do this type of before and after. It’s also tops too. A lot of people forget about that.

And I just want to say out there, y’all tops deserve all the love and attention you get. You need to take care of yourselves too. Next time I see you bring me a damn thing of water, you better have one yourself and be drinking as well. That’s all. 

Vanessa: 

Yes. Well, I remember one time a partner brought us ice cream to share after sex, and I thought that was the cutest thing ever. And you were talking about your kind of practice of getting into a happy headspace. For me, it’s listening to nasty music, think WAP-style music and getting into this, “I’m a bad ass bitch” feeling. All those things I absolutely love, ways of taking care of yourself, being okay, expressing your needs for aftercare.

I’m wondering if you can give any more tips on what happens after. We talked about the moments right after a scene. What about the days after, both in terms of emotional or physical health? 

Charle: 

Yeah. So drop isn’t a thing that just happens immediately. It can happen a couple days afterwards. It can happen on the spot and last a couple of days.

Typically I like taking one day off after BDSM, like a really heavy play session, and that’s just to make sure that I’m okay, even if I’m feeling okay. I want to make sure that I’m doing well. A lot of times it feels like I’ve done something overwhelming for a few days. Sometimes I’m overstimulated and I need that overstimulation to go away and die down.

One of my very first sessions with a pro-dominant in BDSM, I wasn’t aware of myself needing time afterwards. So that night I went and I had a really fun, fulfilling, topping scene. It was the first time I stopped by a man and a woman. They were switching off between thuddy and very sharp impact implements. It was really fun. I had such a good time. 

The next morning, I got up to work. I made myself coffee like usual. I sat down in front of my computer at the time, I was working at a call center, and I was just thinking about how much fun I had the entire day. 

Then I had taken a call with somebody who was just upset, and they were treating me horribly. They were yelling at me, they were insulting me. And I started crying on the phone because I came to the realization I had more respect from the two people the night before who were like, kicking me and stuff like that, than I was actually getting from somebody who I was trying my hardest in my day-to-day life to just do a job for them and make them happy.

I remember after that call, talking to my boss and saying, I can’t right now, I need a day off or I need two days off. They wanted me to explain kind of why. At the time I really couldn’t say, nor did I really go into explanation afterwards. It was just, it was something I found I needed on the spot.

Since then, I’ve made plans that, should I ever do, like topping scenes, I get a full 24 hours of just sorting through my feelings before I really do anything. 

Vanessa: 

It’s pretty incredible what you said, that you felt more respected in the scene. And I think that that level of respect is significant and maybe is misunderstood when people are just entering kink or looking at it from the outside. Your boundaries and experiences and needs and sensations as a sub mattered more in that space than they did with this person who was emotionally abusing you on the phone.

Charle: 

Absolutely. I think there’s a misconception about bottoms and tops, that tops just hold and wield all the power, but that’s not true. They are allowed to use as much power over you as you allow them to. So really as a bottom, you are in control of everything. I rather quite love that.

It took me a lot of playing with different kink and BDSM partners to come to that realization. There are folks who have completely different opinions about that. Kink is not a universal umbrella. You should define it by stepping in yourself. You should take the implements of kink that you want and make it truly your own.

Vanessa: 

There’s a lot of pieces that I’m hearing now. For one, if you’re not feeling emotionally ready for it, maybe not right now. Or if it’s a thing you haven’t had enough opportunity to develop knowledge and skills about, maybe work on that first before doing that thing so that you’re having an empowering experience, rather than feeling physically or emotionally unwell. 

I have two last questions for you. The first is, are there other health or safety recommendations that you’d like to make sure we share before we close out?

Charle: 

When it comes to kink, make sure that you are getting a lot of healthy foods. It is very rough on the body. Not rougher than competition sports. You should think about it in the same way. You are exerting your body past its normal threshold and it needs the right kind of nutrition, hydration and medical attention to recover from that.

That’s something that a lot of people don’t really remember. They’ll be down for impact play. And I love my impact. But at the same time, when was the last time you ate? What was the last time you had more than a sip of water? How many cups of coffee did you have today? Because that could be really bad for your heart in impact scenes. 

Make sure that you are doing this lovely, lovely, unhealthy thing in the most healthy way possible. 

Vanessa: 

This reminds me of running marathons. At the end of the race, they have a bunch of types of food to take care of your body.

Charle: 

I think it’d be fucking great if kink clubs had something like that for. Oh, I would love that. I would love it if afterwards there’s just this huge table of dark chocolate and fruits and peppers and stuff like that. That would be fantastic. I think I know what I want to do next time there’s a filming day.

Vanessa: 

Awesome. Okay, my last question, because we’ve talked a lot about health and safety risks and how to mitigate those. I want to close with, what are some of the reasons that you find BDSM to be good for your health? Why do you do this thing that has these risks? What do you get out of it?

Charle: 

There is an unimaginable amount of mental benefit to be gained from play. I think kink and BDSM are a way of playing. It is a way that you can express yourself and feel seen by the people around you, and feel accepted by the people around you for something that may not be normal. And I think normalization of desire is really good for individuals.

A lot of people have felt shunned about their entire lives, and having something like an open connection where you can feel loved and affirmed in the way you want to be treated is important. It’s really important. It has benefits for the brain. Afterwards I have gotten rushes of euphoria from just being like, “Yes, I did that!” I feel powerful. I took that as hard as I fucking could, and I walked away from it with a smile. 

That is so good for building resilience in the brain and building your thick skin if you will, just being able to have the confidence of saying, I did something super difficult and I walked away from it and I loved it.

Vanessa: 

Yeah, the confidence like you can do hard things, and you can find people to do hard things to you. 

Charle, thanks for all your insights and wisdom. I’m definitely bringing dark chocolate next time I go somewhere to be kinky. 

Charle: 

Dark chocolate and fruit. 

Vanessa: 

Yes. This has been another edition of A Slut’s Guide to Happiness with your host, Vanessa Cliff and our beautiful guest, Charle.

You can find us wherever you get your podcasts, including Apple and Spotify, as well as on our website, cliffmediaproductions.com 

Please help us share the message of inclusive, slut-positive life by downloading, liking or sharing this podcast and stay tuned for more deep dives in beautiful, messy waters. 

If you are over the age of 18, you can also check out our video content, including some scenes with this lovely lady on our website, cliffmediaproductions.com

And most of all, I invite you to join us in the pleasure of being awkwardly human, naked and without pretense. 

Let’s get free.