Welcome back to A Slut’s Guide to Happiness, where your body is perfectly imperfect and it’s safe to be as sexual, kinky, queer, or slutty as you want. 

Today we’re joined by Lupin. He is a creative photographer and also a tech guru. I’ve always been a right brain person – I love people, relationships, emotions, visual arts, and writing. But he is both a left and right brain person, which is really impressive to me. 

One of the many reasons I am excited to talk to Lupin today is that he is not going to be telling a prepackaged story, wrapped with a bow where there’s a beginning, middle and end and arrival point. This is much more like a snapshot in a time of ongoing exploration. 

I love this vulnerability and humility so much. Holding space for not knowing, even or especially not fully knowing ourselves, is so important for all of us, because I don’t believe any of us have arrived. We’re always on this journey of discovery. It’s so important to be able to heal, learn, grow, and figure out what brings us joy, self-actualization and freedom.

Lupin will be sharing the experience of transformation and living across multiple identities. 

From my understanding, and he’ll share this much better in a minute, he came from a conservative upbringing, navigating life as a young Black man, now a queer young Black man, before later moving across the country and figuring out this new version of himself in queer and non-monogamous communities. 

More than any one aspect of his identity or story, this episode is about the universal experience of personal awakening and figuring out how to be your authentic self, whoever that is.

Lupin, thank you so much for joining us today. 

Lupin: 

Of course. 

Vanessa: 

I know you had described growing up in a pretty conservative environment in Virginia. You were telling me there was an expectation in your home community and family that you would be completely straight and monogamous, right? 

Lupin: 

Yeah, it went unsaid. Even like when I would go to family functions. I didn’t really have a lot of friends, going out wasn’t really my thing. Going to family functions, all my cousins would bring their significant others around. The one uncle that I had that was not straight – of course, I don’t know what his preference was, so I’m not saying if he was gay or queer or anything, so I’m just leaving the fact that he was not straight – I don’t remember him ever bringing anyone around. 

Vanessa: 

He was pretty closeted within the context of your family? 

Lupin: 

No, everyone knew that he was, what the Black community calls “different” or “sweet”. But, my Uncle Junie was actually, he was a good dude. I feel bad that I don’t remember him bringing around a partner or a “friend”. All of my cousins, aunties and straight family members brought their significant others. 

So again, and all of this went unsaid. I was very much in that time of “don’t ask, don’t tell”. That wasn’t just a military thing. That was a Black community thing too. Things just went unsaid. But yeah, it was expected. 

Vanessa: 

I know that in Virginia, as anywhere, that was queer community. But you didn’t identify with it at the time. 

Lupin: 

Right. To be honest, I don’t know, Virginia as a state sucks in general. They say it’s for lovers. But what they mean is that you go somewhere else, you find love, and then you come back. And you know, it is for those people, the people that go out, find their significant others and get married. Then Virginia is a cool place to raise some kids. 

But then of course, there are those lifers that will grow up, live and stay in Virginia their whole lives. Sometimes they find a significant other, sometimes they don’t. But as far as a queer community, it’s hard to define. You can spot a queer or gay or lesbian person, no problem. But as far as seeing a community base, me personally, I had never seen it. 

I was also raised around very strong Baptist Christian Black folk. So in those areas there was no room for a queer community, even if some of those individuals may have been gay and or queer, because of how heavy, I would say heavy, because of how heavy and sometimes dangerous, things could be out in Virginia back then.

I don’t know about now, but back then, it was not something that people would flaunt or embrace. I’m not saying that you should have to flaunt your gayness or queerness or whatever, but you just couldn’t just be out. You had to hide who you were in order to survive. 

Vanessa: 

You were describing a moment to me that seems like a powerful, kind of pivotal moment. You were sitting with your family, watching a movie and you had a discovery. What happened? 

Lupin: 

It was one of The Hangover movies. I don’t know why my parents wanted to watch it. It’s a little out of character for them. I think they knew that once the movie started playing, too. 

But we watched it, the whole thing. There was a scene where they were in Bangkok and they were in the strip club. One of the strippers was like, “Honey, this is Bangkok”. And then you see other strippers walking around with their lady bits out. 

It was very hot, very attractive. I had to excuse myself for a moment because, again, trying to mask whatever feelings I was feeling at that time. I knew for me it was good, but I knew it went against what my parents taught. So but I knew from that point moving forward I knew I wasn’t straight.

Vanessa: 

You were seeing trans women who were strippers that you were turned on by in this movie. 

Lupin: 

In my mind they were women. 

Vanessa: 

Yeah. That’s beautiful. There’s not even a need for an adjective. 

Lupin: 

No, there were women with women dicks. I was just like. Yeah. That looks kind of hot. Oh, yeah. 

Vanessa: 

You were having these private thoughts in your mind with your family sitting around. If they had known, do you think that may have had some challenging reactions to it? 

Lupin: 

I don’t know. And quite frankly, I’m glad that I will never know. Because with them being as religious as they are, I can only imagine all of the things they would do to get rid of the queerness in me. I’m glad I didn’t express anything. 

I never really talked about my sex life with my family. But I also didn’t really talk about my daily life either. So it was just another secret to keep in the bag. 

Vanessa: 

How did you make sense of it for yourself at the time? Was it a confusing experience? Was it enlightening? 

Lupin: 

It wasn’t necessarily at the top of my important things to do or figure out. I was still very much trying to survive being bullied, being picked on, being a small, nerdy, scrawny Black kid. It didn’t fare well for me.

I also had a mouth on me. So I got my butt kicked quite a lot. My brother and my sister, everyone picked on me. It was just the thing to do, apparently. But even though I knew I was outmatched, that didn’t stop me from talking. I learned that you don’t necessarily have to talk if people are like nagging at you or bullying you. 

What helped me, unfortunately, was going to the military. I learned how to defend myself. I stopped talking so much. 

Vanessa: 

As a self-protective measure? 

Lupin: 

Yes. But also just, I didn’t want other people to know what I was capable of. I learned the hard way that learning allows so much, it gives away too much. 

After being in the military, I was into MMA and stuff. I took a lot of classes and I’m not as in shape as I was, but I learned a lot in those moments. If you can defend yourself, you don’t feel the need to talk as much.

Vanessa: 

Coming out to queerness happened much later. But in that early childhood you’re describing that you were bullied for lots of different reasons. You were facing challenges as a small man, as a Black man, as a nerdy boy. So how did you navigate that? 

I know you described that, for example, you faced discrimination from police on top of bullying from siblings and friends. How did you navigate that and how did that impact your ability to even think about whether or not you were queer at the time? 

Lupin: 

Knowing what I know now, I didn’t navigate it. I didn’t know how. A lot of things just got piled on top of each other. There were a few saving grace moments that allowed me to keep pushing forward. I held onto those for dear life. 

But no, I didn’t know how to navigate those things. I guess my way of dealing with queerness was just pretending it didn’t exist. It wasn’t there. That was probably because I already had a hard time dealing with all the other things without throwing in another thing that would have ostracized me more than what I already was.

Now that I’m thinking about, I should’ve just fucking did it. No one liked me, really. The people that did like me stuck around. My best friend who I moved out here for – 

Vanessa: 

That you grew up with? 

Lupin: 

I didn’t really grow up with him, but I’ve known him for like 17 years, so half my life, I’m only 35 now. So him and my other two, really good friends, best friends. It took me a long time to find those individuals. Every time I meet them, whether it be a conversation or an event or hang out, they always supported me in those ways.

I didn’t realize how much I needed that more than anything else. My family is so focused on supporting each other financially. My mom was a very loving and caring woman. She still is, she’s not dead. But ultimately, the most important thing in my family, probably still to this day, is money.

With all the weird choices that I made that was against my family, I’ve come to learn that money isn’t everything. Granted, it’s a great tool and it’s a tool that should be used properly, which I also wasn’t taught. I’m learning and navigating all of this now, hearing other people’s stories about how their parents raised them and what all their parents taught them before leaving home or going off to college.

I’m just like, damn. It’s not like my parents didn’t make money, but college wasn’t an option for some reason. Because of finances, I don’t know. The college conversation was almost like, mute. It just didn’t happen. And I desperately wanted to get away from my family anyways. So I joined the military. That was my way out.

Vanessa: 

One of the things I’m thinking about from what you’re describing is that in swinger communities, poly communities and even sometimes in queer communities, it’s disproportionately white or it’s disproportionately middle class compared to the rest of the population. Perhaps throwing out this hypothesis, that when you’re already dealing with all those other things, it’s harder to also add being poly are also and being queer. And then having a family that is financially supportive or emotionally supportive of you is another layer of privilege.

Lupin: 

I mean, I would say it’s a bit of a stretch. The thought or their idea of support wasn’t really support. But it was more just like a tally. I did this for you. I paid for this. I paid for that. As soon as I was old enough to start working, the free ride was done. I didn’t ask to be here. 

Vanessa: 

Yeah. We didn’t ask to be born into this difficult capitalist society that we struggle to survive in. 

Lupin: 

No. It still pisses me off to this day. I’m over it, really. But whenever it comes up or I have to talk about it, it is really annoying. Moving back home after my suicide attempt was hard enough for me as is, because I’m already 30-something years old moving back in with my parents. 

Those two combinations right there are already a hard thing to deal with in the dating world, regardless if it’s poly or monogamous. Being Black just kind of adds more to it, more negatively, unfortunately for some people. Like, oh you’re Black, in your 30s and living with your parents? Nah I’m good. The amount of times I’ve heard that, it’s ridiculous. 

My family’s way of support after my suicide attempt. My sister did a great job. Got me in touch with a therapist. That therapist saved my life. 

Vanessa: 

We’ve talked to quite a few people on this podcast who have described the amazing value of quality mental health care. 

Lupin: 

Yeah. Honestly, therapists should make way more than doctors. Mental health treatment should be given to everybody. Everyone should have access to it. Because it would release a lot of stigma. Like hey look, it’s free. Just try it out. If it just so happens to help you a little bit. Just a smidge. Keep coming back. See what else unfolds. 

Vanessa: 

So on a lighter note, I remember you were describing when you first heard about the swingers in Virginia, there was a little identifying thing on people’s yards that I didn’t know about. 

Lupin: 

Yeah, at the time I was working at this horrible country club, called Trump International. He was buying out country clubs left and right. 

Vanessa: 

And this was a long time before his candidacy? 

Lupin: 

Yeah, it was before anyone even knew that he was who he is. I was working at the country club. I was helping the people that were going out to play golf and playing with their clubs and stuff. 

A very intoxicated woman said, “Hey, you’re cute, we’re having a party later. You’re 18 or older, right?” I said, yeah, I’m 20. 

She said, “Okay, cool, the party is going to be at my house. There’s a white rock in front of it, can’t miss it.” I said, I appreciate the invite but unfortunately I’m going out with my friends after work. Maybe I’ll catch you next time. 

My buddy was like, dude, why would you not go? And I was like, she’s old and creepy. And he was like, yeah, but she’s hot and she wanted to hook up. 

I said, what do you mean she wanted to hook up? He said, dude, the white boulder thing means that they’re swingers. And I was just like, ohh, swing dancing? And he was like, no, swinging, they like to swap wives. And or I was like, I’m not married. He’s like, it doesn’t matter. They just like to have fun. 

That’s how I learned about that. 

Vanessa: 

That’s so funny. I was at a swinger resort, sex club weekend once and there were upside down pineapples everywhere. I remember looking around confused, like why are there so many pineapples. 

Lupin: 

I knew about the pineapple thing because of “How I Met Your Mother”. That little pineapple on the dresser? I didn’t know what it meant and they didn’t explain it in the show, but I looked it up. Another another way of finding out. 

Vanessa: 

So you’re 20 in Virginia, and you’re finding this out. It gets kind of cataloged in the back of your mind. You’re not really looking to engage. You didn’t follow through and call the woman. 

Lupin: 

I was I don’t want to say brainwashed because that’s not the right term, but, I bought into how I was raised, and that was my life.

Vanessa: 

Yeah. You’re also busy surrounding it, right? 

Lupin: 

Yeah.

Vanessa: 

So, you moved and a lot of things changed in your life.

Lupin: 

Yeah, I moved out to Portland for my best friend. Which is funny because when I told my family that I was moving out of Portland… Anyhow, yes, I moved out to Portland, and just walking around Portland. Sketchy. Weird. But everyone was so free. 

I had never seen so many people out in the open, straight, gay, queer, lesbian, naked. Like the naked bike ride, seeing that, people can just do that in Portland.

It still took me a couple of months of being around it and getting more comfortable and obviously, my family is not around, so I don’t have to hide anymore. It’s like the thought that came to my head, the realization that I don’t have to hide anymore.

Vanessa: 

How did that realization feel? 

Lupin: 

Scary. Because I haven’t really met a lot of people yet. And then the few times that I went out as a queer person, obviously still as myself, I still dress the same boring way that I dress. 

I went to what I thought was a queer bar, and apparently it was actually a gay bar. I had the worst experience interacting with a white guy that told me that I was sexualizing the LGBTQ+ community because I was not attracted to him. 

He didn’t say that specifically, but because I was not attracted to him and I did not want a drink from him, he decided to go, “Oh, well, then you’re not queer.” I was like, no, I’m queer, I’m just not into other cisgender males such as myself. So gay men don’t really do it for me. I’m sorry. But, you know, girl penis, absolutely. I’ll take some of those. I like the other side of the queer community. I just don’t like men. Not in that way. 

Actually I did meet this cute guy at a nude beach and we exchanged Snapchats. And so, I mean, we’re figuring him out. But definitely queer. 

Vanessa: 

So you encountered some policing of what it means to be queer and finding acceptance in the community?

Lupin: 

Yeah. And, quite frankly, it did make me take a couple of steps back that night. When I first heard about the queer community, years ago, I heard the idea that we don’t like labels, don’t label us. I really admired that because I want to just be me. 

I don’t want to necessarily be labeled or categorized. Why can’t I just be myself? I want to like who I like. I want to do what I like to do. So I was like, I don’t need to be 100. I don’t necessarily even like the queer title because I like what I like. 

Whether you’re female or transgender, if I’m attracted to you and you have a good personality and we can actually carry a conversation, I’m not going to be against the idea of going out on a date with you or potentially maybe even a relationship. 

But I’m also learning my own empowerment. I don’t have to say yes. And if I’m not necessarily attracted to you, that’s okay. There are literally millions of people in the world. Yes, it sucks, but there are so many people out there that you can find someone that’s going to be into what you’re into. Oddly enough, it took me moving all the way across the country to start finding people that were more appealing to me.

Vanessa: 

The power of saying no to the people who you don’t want. Every time you say no to them is one step closer to the person that you do want. You’re saying no to them but you’re saying yes to yourself. 

Lupin: 

Right. And that’s how I started looking at it. I’m not saying no. I’m just saying no to you. I’m still saying yes to me, right? I’m not attracted to you, and that’s okay. 

You can go on being upfront and honest but polite about it. It should help that individual be able to just go on about their way and hopefully find somebody else. 

Vanessa: 

Because we all want to be enthusiastically loved and desired. And we’re not all compatible with each other. So being able to express that honestly is really important. 

I hear you describing something that I think is dear to my heart too, and I think is really powerful in connection to freedom, which is you came from this environment where it was rigid. You had to be straight, you had to be one way, and then you’re seeking this transformation into something that’s more free.

So then you don’t want to just replicate that rigidity. Before it was the “straight” box, now it’s “queer” and it’s defined in this way. Here’s a little box, this new box. 

Lupin: 

Yeah, I don’t want to be in a box. Fuck the box, just let me live. 

Because I feel like especially for Black – I can’t speak for the Black community, not ever – but for me, as a Black man, life is hard enough. 

I’m getting a little emotional about this because I can’t even imagine what it’s like for a Black trans person, or a Black gay man or a Black queer boy. But because we are Black men or just Black people in general, life and society already has the perception, “We have to look out for those people. We have to watch those people.” 

Even moving from Virginia to Portland, I don’t know why, but I thought there would be less racism out here. No, this is not true at all. Quite frankly, there’s actually more racism out here. It’s just, polite. Like that passive aggressive racism. I hate it.

In Virginia, it was very obvious, very in your face, at least I was like, alright cool, I know where I know where you stand. But here is just like, oh, that was nice. The undertone. Apparently a lot of people out here don’t notice it. And I’m just like, bro, I’m from the East Coast. I can see straight through that. 

Vanessa: 

There’s this narrative that when you’re in a place that’s progressive about one thing, people assume it means it’s progressive about everything. Like if there’s a place that’s progressive about gender and sexuality, for example, then there’s an assumption sometimes made that it’s advanced in all areas, people assume there’s no racism. But that’s absolutely not the case.

Lupin: 

One thing that I do like about being in Portland is the amount of people that have the pride flag along with the Black Lives Matter flag. Don’t get me wrong, I am also a person that believes all lives matter. But there’s also nothing wrong with saying Black Lives Matter. If all lives really do matter, there should be nothing wrong with saying that. So just seeing that more in a city area, it is good, I like it. 

Vanessa: 

In a racist society, the reminder that Black Lives Matter is more necessary. 

Lupin: 

Yeah. 

Vanessa: 

So have you found other Black queer folks since being in Portland?

Lupin: 

No, not yet. 

Vanessa: 

How do you navigate those two different parts of your identity? 

Lupin: 

As it goes. I still have to work and make a living and do that. And I still live my life. I just live it the way I need to. Because I don’t want to be homeless. I like having a car to be able to go where I want, what I want. I like food and that’s important. 

Between all the new people that I’ve been meeting, everyone that’s been super helpful, a nice, good friend of mine taught me about finances. They taught me about finances. They helped me bring my numbers to the table and break down each and every single itemized list on all the things that I have to pay. 

Luckily, I worked my way out of the hole that I was in, and now I’m able to rebuild myself after after that whole thing.

Vanessa: 

Congratulations.

Lupin: 

Thank you. I think I’m finally, slowly, building my community, and apparently building my family. I woke up Saturday morning, and that was the happiest I’ve ever felt in my entire life.  I woke up happy. And for someone who lived in darkness for so long, I never thought I’d be that happy.

Vanessa: 

Wow. So that’s powerful. What in your life is bringing you to that place? 

Lupin: 

Just, everything. This. 

Vanessa: 

He was scratching his bright green hair, for folks who are just listening. 

Lupin: 

Changing my hair color. Painting my nails. Just trying literally everything. 

Vanessa: 

Allowing yourself to try these things. 

Lupin: 

Essentially I’m learning myself all over again. I like my nails painted Black. 

Vanessa: 

They look great.

Lupin:

There’s no significant meaning to it. It was fun. Me and my partner just were saying, want to paint your nails? Sure. Why not? It comes off. If I don’t like it, I can remove it.

Vanessa: 

Same with your hair. It’s all experimentation. 

Lupin: 

This will grow out. Or I can just go bald, which I’ve been bald before. So if I don’t like it, I can always just revert back. 

But finally actually being able to have these experiences. I’m guiding myself through it, which feels really good. It feels like no one’s making any of these choices for me. It’s like people are presenting me with things. Then I can say, Nah, I’m good on that one, or Yes, let me try this. Yeah, I’ll absolutely try that. 

I’m at the point where I kind of want to try a little bit of everything because like if you try it once, you don’t let it, cool, at least you tried it. And now you know that that’s definitely not for you. And that’s okay. There’s nothing wrong with something not being for you. Being told that it’s okay that it’s not for you is different than learning. 

Vanessa: 

You mentioned you have a partner and you all are poly, right? 

Lupin: 

Yes. 

Vanessa: 

Which is different than the expectation when you were growing up. 

Lupin: 

Yes. Yeah. 

Vanessa: 

How did that happen? 

Lupin: 

Dating apps. When I first moved out here, I told myself that I was going to be more open-minded about life. I went through two not great poly relationships. Of course, with my stubborn Aries ability, I kept trying. 

I just happened to have met, I’m going to call them Babylon because I don’t want to expose them, but I met Babylon, and she’s amazing. Very supportive. I would say she’s just as stubborn as me. When we first met, I was talking to other people. 

One of those individuals is still in my life as a really good friend, and I am totally happy, and I’m for it. I just wish they wouldn’t have given up on me so soon. 

But again, I can’t control their choice or their life. It would have been nice if they had stuck it out and just kind of been a little more patient because I was going through a lot. But so are they. And again, it’s okay. They were upfront and honest with me and they were like, I feel like I’d be better to you as a friend, as a supportive friend, while you go and experiment through your queer journey. 

The only thing that I didn’t like about that statement is the question of why you can’t be a part of it. You don’t necessarily have to step aside. You can be a part of it. 

Vanessa: 

But you know was it specifically your queerness and your queer exploration that they were responding to? 

Lupin: 

To be honest, I think they may have been going through something. They probably needed more than what I was able to give because I’m still learning myself and trying to do all these new things, not necessarily going out more, but trying to be around the awesome queer people that I’ve met through Cliff Media. I want to have fun. 

It would be nice to have them there with me to enjoy that fun. But it’s possible that maybe the lifestyle that I was experimenting with or trying to give a chance, they may not have been into. And if they would have explained that to me and expressed that to me, we would have a conversation about it. I would have respected whatever decision they made after. 

But you know, I’m not going to dwell on that because that’s how you get bad mental brain cycles. I don’t like that. So I feel like, I love you, I’m happy for you. And yeah, of course we could still be friends. 

Vanessa: 

Yeah. You’re choosing yourself.

Lupin: 

Yeah. 

Vanessa: 

So not only did you come out as queer and now poly, you were also filming at an orgy space almost all day. I have to mention one of the things that I thought was incredible. This was the first day that I met you. I have never seen a videographer go to the room of people and ask for their enthusiastic consent for filming. That was an incredible moment to say that this is reflecting values that is not just in sex, but in all human relationships. It’s important that you did that. 

Lupin: 

I would like to give credit, but unfortunately, I can’t give them credit because the people that I would give that credit to are no longer talking to me. It all had to do with how I was raised. I remember one of the first times I think my mom send me out to go to school by myself. She was like, no one is allowed to see you. If someone touches you, that’s not okay. That’s not good.

Mind you, as a child, I needed to hear that because it gave me the power to tell another adult, no. But because of that, I cherished that and held on to it. Any time I was dating someone and, especially after I matured, I would always ask, “Hey, is this okay?”

It’s funny, I’ve actually had women tell me that asking was the most unsexy thing ever. I was like, oh, sorry. I would rather be safe knowing that you’re okay with me touching you in that way instead of me trying to guess if this is okay then I do it and I either get slapped or have the cops call on me. Or there are a hundred other bad things that can happen to someone that touches someone without consent. 

As a photographer, people hire you to take pictures. Even regardless of the scenario, regardless of the job or whatever, my brain needs that 100% affirmation that, yes, this is okay. Because once I have that, I feel free to work the way I need to. 

Vanessa: 

Yeah. And you know, you weren’t getting paid at that day. 

Lupin: 

I got paid. 

Vanessa: 

Oh yeah? 

Lupin: 

I got paid in hugs, tears and just acceptance. 

Vanessa: 

Oh, that’s what I was going to say, because you brought the value of consent and the way you navigated that space, when you sat down in the circle at the end of the day, even before you had opened your mouth and shared so vulnerably, I feel like everyone in the room saw you as part of the community. 

Sure, you weren’t fucking that particular day. But you were as much part of that as anyone else there. I feel like it’s about your values and the way that you show up. And you also shared something that was really brave and a gift to the people in the room. I wonder if you could kind of share what you were thinking at the time and how you processed it since then. 

Lupin: 

I shared so much. The one thing that I can think of that stood out for me was the simple fact that that was the first time I ever felt fully accepted. 

Even though I am Black, I have been rejected by my community countless times. Countless times. Not Black enough. Not tall enough. Not athletic enough. Dude, you’re weird. With my own family, I never really just felt comfortable. They’re my family. I know they love me, but more like they love me out of obligation. They don’t actually love me because they didn’t fully know me. And they couldn’t fully know me because they restricted who I was. 

So having that moment and sharing that space with all of you… The one person I knew who was going to be there, they didn’t show up because their cat was dying. So even though I knew no one there, no one looked at me weird. No one stared at me. I just felt so free to be myself. I was like, no one cares that I’m here. No one’s clenching their wallet or holding onto their purses tightly or just staring me down because I look different than them. None of that. 

Vanessa: 

I’m so glad that you felt that way. 

Lupin: 

And actually, one of the people that I met for the first time, I was sitting there filling out paperwork and they said, can I give you a hug? I’m like, let me finish this, but yeah. Let me finish this but I’ll absolutely give you a hug. That’s exactly what happened. 

It was so overwhelming for me because I never felt that level of acceptance by that many people. That was a great, beautiful moment and I loved it. That was good. 

Vanessa: 

There was one thing you were saying earlier that really stuck out to me, which is you’re describing why you chose to enter that space through the lens of enthusiastic consent. You referenced your mom. Even though from what you shared with me about your mom, I have a hard time imagining she would be excited about filming a porn orgy –

Lupin: 

Absolutely not. 

Vanessa: 

Yeah. And yet, those values that she instilled in you, about asking and respect, showed up in your behavior in that space in a really positive way. 

Lupin: 

I know that there are a lot of things about me that I like and that I cherish. And even though I may not see things the exact same way as my parents and or my family does, I don’t have to stop being who I am. 

Vanessa: 

Yeah. Some of it is connected to your family coming from that, and some of it is yourself, and you’re choosing what feels right for you. 

How do you make sense of being in a porn shoot or being slutty or going to sex clubs or having sex with people, whatever it is that you do in your life now? 

Lupin: 

Right now, I am still very much struggling and just trying to rebuild everything that I lost. That’s just my focus. My focus is just on me and whoever else, in a healthy way, would like to contribute or add to my life.

But outside of that I’m just like, eh, nah, I’m good. As far as like porn or sex club spaces, I still get a little nervous because it’s not something that I’ve experienced before. Knowing that I have someone’s enthusiastic consent gives me the freedom to just be like, alright cool, this is okay. It’s okay for me to be here. It’s okay for me to have safe sex. It’s okay for me to enjoy having sex with other people. 

There are so many emotions and feelings that I have towards it because, you know, in my mind, whenever you have sex with someone, you’re sharing a part of yourself with that person. I very much still cherish that. 

I’m careful about who I share myself with because unfortunately, even in the monogamous relationships I was in, some of those individuals just probably were not safe for me. Actually, I take that back, I would say that all of those situations just weren’t safe for me. The reason why I say that is because I wasn’t who I was, I wasn’t even being my full self then. I never came out to those individuals, I never felt safe enough to come out to those individuals.

I’m always going to choose a safe environment for me to be in. I’m always going to choose people that I feel safe around to share that space with. I am very careful about who I invite over to my place. I’m very careful about places I go over to people.

It feels good having that control and having that power and knowing that I can do what I want within the guidelines of what I set up for myself. And, I love it. 

Vanessa: 

Yeah, you chose that. 

Someone recently shared with me the analogy of a Kindergarten playground that if there’s no fence, then the kids just run wild and you’re worried about them running in the streets and running away. But if there’s a fence, then that means they can have lots of freedom to play. And it sounds like you have done an amazing job of allowing yourself to have a fence so that you can have more freedom. 

And you’re choosing that you respect yourself enough to say, I deserve people who will be safe for me, even and especially when I am myself.

Lupin: 

The person that I said is my partner, we chose each other. And I think that’s why we connected the way we did, just because things kept progressing in a positive way and we kept being there for each other in a positive way. I’ve felt love before and I’ve given love numerous times, numerous times. And this is the first time I have ever felt completely loved. 

Vanessa: 

For all of who you are. 

Lupin: 

For all of who I am. They like to grab my butt. They like to nuzzle up to me. They helped me explore different aspects of BDSM, and helped me understand what I more naturally gravitate to instead of just telling me to do something because she likes it. 

Instead, she paid attention to me. She would say, I’ve noticed you like this. Even when she was getting railed hard as hell, she was paying attention to me. She said, I was paying attention. I see you. I know that you claim to be a dom and I can tell that you kind of have like that Alpha personality, but not like in an asshole-ish way. And that’s how she was talking about it, she told me that. 

But she said that, with the way that I naturally interact with people and how I naturally engage in sex with her, that I have a whole primal sense of my being. And when she said that I was like, how did you know that? Because I feel like I’m very in tune with my spirit animal. 

Vanessa: 

Your spirit animal is? 

Lupin: 

A wolf. She’s opened my mind and my eyes up to a lot of different things, not trying to guide me, not trying to push me in a certain direction, but just more just like, hey, I noticed this about you, or let’s do XYZ so then you can figure out if this is how your brain works or if or if you’re into this or that.

She’s not trying to force me or guide me into anything. She’s just saying, you have options. Let’s figure out what you like or what you’re into. I see the space to grow and change within the same relationship. 

Vanessa: 

You don’t have to be the static person she just met. I love it when people don’t make assumptions about us and instead get curious. That connection sounds really important to you. 

Lupin: 

Very important. Yeah. 

Vanessa: 

Wonderful. So I loved when you said that you woke up this Saturday feeling the happiest you’ve ever felt in your life, in this new version of yourself, releasing boundaries around what’s weird and allowing yourself to just be. 

What would you recommend to help people, regardless of where they’re coming from, maybe especially folks who are coming from your background in a conservative Virginia or a Black community or in a Baptist community, who are making the leap, like this feels scary, there’s some weirdness about this, but I’m going to try.

What would you say to folks who are in the situation you were in maybe a couple years ago, when you were first giving yourself that permission to be yourself?

Lupin: 

Well, before I say anything, I would say it’s very important to find out who you are. Fortunately, there are a lot of people out there that still don’t know who they are, regardless of their age. That’s the most important part, is finding out who you are.

For me, after a lot of different experiences, I’ve learned that I am a protector, probably because of how much I was bullied. I like the idea of protecting the people I love and the people that I care about. I’m also a big nature person. I like being outside. I like hiking. I want to get into camping. I want to learn how to hunt. I don’t know if I’m actually going to, but I at least want to know how. 

For individuals coming from a very complicated background, regardless of your race or religion, because, quite frankly, all of the commercialized religions are god awful, pun intended, it’s important to just stay true to who you are as you’re exploring. 

Trust your gut. Follow your instincts. If you don’t feel comfortable saying yes to everything, then don’t. The amount of horror stories I’ve heard, from people just saying yes. I’m just like, why? They explained this whole scenario in great detail, and I’m just sitting here thinking like, why would you have not walked away immediately? I know I would have. 

Vanessa: 

Yeah. It takes some self-love and bravery. 

Lupin: 

It’s good to be brave and to be bold, but also be smart about it. I know for a lot of people who have lived sheltered lives, you don’t always necessarily recognize certain dangers. Deep down in the very far back of your mind, if you feel slightly uncomfortable, that’s a good indicator to probably say no.Because if it doesn’t make you curious and or if it doesn’t excite you to want to try it, then you probably shouldn’t do it. 

We’re naturally scared of things that we don’t know and or that we don’t understand. But if you get curious, like yes, scary, but I’m curious, am I gay? Am I queer? Am I any of these things? 

I’m not saying everyone should try it because it’s not going to be for everyone. But if you question whether or not if you’re straight or if you question whether or not if you’re queer or if you have any doubts about the life that you’re currently in, then do some research. Talk to your closest friends. And I say your closest friends because if it’s a friend that you’ve told everything to and they know you inside and out and you shared your deepest, darkest secrets, your deepest, darkest part of your mind, those friends, talk to those friends.

Let them know what you’re curious about and then figure out a way to try it. For example, my hair, I was with my partner and their partner and I talked about it and they said, oh well, let’s try to figure out what colors you’re into. I said, yeah, let me think about it some more first.

But then like one day we were all just hanging out. I was like, fuck it, I want to try it. And I loved it. I think I’ve actually gotten more compliments about my green hair than I ever gotten in my entire life. 

Vanessa: 

And it started with you embracing your curiosity. 

Lupin: 

Yeah.

Vanessa: 

Beautiful lessons. Thank you so much for joining us today. 

Viewers, thanks for joining us as well. 

This has been another edition of A Slut’s Guide to Happiness with your host, Vanessa Cliff, and our fabulous guest today, Lupin. 

You can find us wherever you get your podcasts, including Apple, Spotify, and on our website, cliffmediaproductions.com

Please help us out by liking and sharing this podcast, and stay tuned for more deep dives into beautiful, messy waters. 

And if you are over the age of 18, you can find our video content, including some that this one has filmed, on our website, cliffmediaproductions.com. 

And most of all, I invite you to join us in the pleasure of being awkwardly human, naked and without pretense.

Let’s get free.