Welcome back to A Slut’s Guide to Happiness, where your body is perfectly imperfect and it’s safe to be as sexual, kinky, queer, or slutty as you want. 

Today I will be talking with T.Max, a queer community leader and wonderful friend who just has an amazing “hell yes” improv energy for jumping into life adventures, whether they’re out snowboarding or skateboarding or diving into beds or living rooms or wherever it is they do the things.

I often like to dress up in silly ways, as you know. So we are ready here with our silly shirt. T.Max, do you want to tell the listeners what your shirt says? 

T.Max: 

My shirt says “God is queer” and it’s a t-shirt I purchased at a Pussy Riot show not so long ago. 

Vanessa: 

I have seen them in this shirt so many times and I just love the way they claim their queerness. My shirt says “dream, eat, fc-uk laugh, play”. That’s “f-c-u-k” so that I can wear it to normal stores and it’s totally okay. But it summarizes some of the lovely things that I enjoy doing, which is exactly what we’re going to be talking about today. 

So before we jump into this deliciously slutty conversation, I want to take you all on a little nerdy detour. So if you were to grab your thesaurus and look up silly, here are some of the words you get: Absurd. Childish. Foolish. Frivolous. Inappropriate. Irresponsible. Pointless. Preposterous. Man, those words don’t make me want to go out and be silly.

So maybe as kids, we can get away with being silly, foolish, frivolous, inappropriate. But as adults, we’re taught to be serious. We’ll pay those bills, do the responsible things, build serious, meaningful relationships. And of course, those are good. 

But a lot of research has also shown us the value of silly play, even for adults. It encourages us to be creative. It allows us to explore new experiences and new aspects of who we are. It allows us to laugh, to ease tension, enhance social connections and promote a positive outlook on life. 

So T.Max has had this playful attitude about life and all those other parts of their life. And has more recently dove into exploring kink as a form of adult silly play. 

I think kink is often stereotyped in popular imagination as like, there’s someone in a dark dungeon. It’s full of leather and whips and curdling screams. But BDSM can also be silly, playful, lighthearted exploration. 

In this vein, over the last few years, T.Max has been bringing the spirit of play and adventure to lots of different kinks. I am excited today that we all get to hear some of the juicy details of their kinks, and this playful side of BDS that I think is a beautiful, accessible space for a lot of adults to play.

And, so, T.Max, thank you for joining us. 

T.Max:

Happy to be here. 

Vanessa: 

Well, actually, this is in your house, so I should say, thank you for making me feel welcome. 

I want to start with a story you shared with me about one of the first times you cracked open that door to explore kink. I think it was a dinner party. Can you tell me about what happened, how you felt there? 

T.Max: 

Yeah, it was a dinner party with platonic friends that went into the wee hours. And at some point, after the hot tub and other shenanigans, somebody asked if the rest of the group would like any wax poured on them. It was night time, there were candles around, and I was enthusiastic. I just kind of blurted it out.

Vanessa: 

And you had done this before?

T.Max: 

No, never. No, I really am a baby queer in many, many respects. Like you were mentioning in the intro, I’ve been leaning into a lot of things very recently, and this is just one of those “hell yes” situations. 

I said hell yes and had wax poured on me. They were some really good friends that I’ve cared deeply about and I thoroughly enjoyed it. That really was like the first thing that got the gears turning. 

Vanessa: 

Can you give us more details? Were they sex candles? Were you naked? 

T.Max:

It was post hot tub. I was wearing a bra and panties, and no, they were just candles around the house. It was just hanging out and a little moment of hedonism. It was just the perfect setting to try something like that on. It was unexpected. My reaction was also very unexpected. I kind of ate it up. 

Vanessa: 

Also the fact that you were not playing with sex candles, they were just normal candles, those can be super hot. I cum from that, but it’s not nothing. 

T.Max: 

Yeah, it was interesting, I just leaned into it. I think I got a little honorable mention on the chalkboard for the hedonism Olympics for how much I did enjoy that. 

Vanessa: 

Everybody could tell you’re enjoying it, 

T.Max: 

Yes, yes. 

Vanessa: 

So did you have any feelings of concern, what’s going on with me? Why am I enjoying this? This is weird. 

T.Max: 

No, not that this is weird. Just that it was an amazing new experience and it made me want to try more. I like to try these little things on, so I’m like, what about this one? Then all of a sudden, another one works. To have that latitude to try stuff is really important. It really did crack the door open for me. 

Vanessa: 

You gave yourself permission to explore. So after you came home from that party, you felt excited about it. Did you know immediately that you wanted to dive into other things or did you spend a while thinking about it? 

T.Max: 

I think one of the things that’s been really nice in my life is I get to take my time with all of this. I’ve been really patient. First I had to get wax out of my mind. But after that I had some time to think about it and wonder, what else is out there in this world? 

A couple friend recommendations, including from a really awesome dominatrix, helped me further dive in. 

Vanessa: 

I love that because there are professionals out there who know how to help people explore and play. 

T.Max: 

Yeah, and to explore not for sex or what you have to do. Really to explore different sensations in that space. 

Vanessa: 

So what did the dominatrix do with you? 

T.Max: 

Oh my gosh, what didn’t they do. 

Vanessa: 

What were some of the highlights? 

T.Max: 

Well for me, it was being dressed up. We were talking about play and we were being fun and lighthearted. I believe it was in the spring of last year. They brought flowers and clothespins and made me a bouquet. 

Vanessa: 

That’s so your personality. 

T.Max: 

Yeah, I was covered in wildflowers and giggling and having a good time. There was a very sturdy coffee table at the place where we were, so I was put on the coffee table in spring finery and it turned out they were really accurate with a whip. Each of the clothespins with a flower were whipped off. 

Vanessa: 

So you felt the pinching of the clothespin coming out of your body. 

T.Max: 

Yeah, and saw the flower flying, It was not only really fun, but it was impressive to be that accurate. It was like the Indiana Jones of kink and included nature. 

Vanessa: 

Yeah, so many kinks require practice. In order to do the practice, it’s often not sexy. It can be sexy, but it’s often not sex. Often you get into an intellectualizing headspace. We have to just be wanting to play with the silliness of it, the sensation and the adventure. 

T.Max: 

Yeah, now that I think of it, I still have the flower around here. I put it in that book. 

So I saw that domme for a while after that. And they are still a friend. They moved away. 

Vanessa: 

It’s cool that you became friends after starting your professional relationship. 

T.Max: 

Yeah, I’m a friendly person, I make friends everywhere I go. 

Vanessa: 

That’s beautiful. So you started in a giggly, submissive headspace with wax, then you’re exploring these things with the professional dominatrix. How has it evolved since then, how is your sexuality and your relationship to kink? 

T.Max: 

Being able to approach it in such a light-hearted and playful way just gives you the confidence to explore other things and giving yourself permission is easier. You can always ask for what you want, so you’re co-creating a space. 

I would see the same domme, so that I don’t have to start my story over every time. We were able to step in a little deeper each time. That wasn’t emotional impact, some deep sexual connection maybe. It was also playful, why don’t we try this thing? What if we try this? What about this? It was just such a cool experience. 

Vanessa: 

That’s wonderful. 

You mentioned the lightheartedness made it easier to explore things and give verbal consent. How did those two things relate? 

T.Max: 

Well because it’s easier to build trust on a really overwhelmingly positive experience. A lot of yeses gives you the confidence to also say no sometimes, to say, that doesn’t feel right or to ask. You can say no, or you can say how about a little more to the left or right, or just a little harder with the teeth.

It helps just by asking those simple questions and having that agency to know you can ask. If it doesn’t work out, it’s okay. They can say no, I can say no, I can say, how about like that? It’s a constant consent feedback loop. 

Like you were saying in the intro, some people think BDSM is dark and icky and hurtful in some way. But it just really isn’t. It’s more than a social exercise in communication in a very personal way. 

Vanessa: 

One of the things I’m hearing is that it becomes an interesting space to play with. I think when most people imagine they’re going to have a sexual interaction, they may imagine genitals interacting but not necessarily clothes pins and flowers. You have more things to play with. 

You’ve also described to me that this has come along your queer journey. So through this kink process, can you describe what gender or sexual orientation of bodies you like to fuck, are you usually dominant or submissive, what kind of kink roles do you play? 

T.Max: 

Right now I’m such a baby queer, at this point I am as switchy witch as there is. It’s just like saying I like all music except country. This is kind of a non-answer, but I’m also in a headspace of trying things on in this period of my life. So truly all bodies, all genders, all ages, all body styles. 

Vanessa: 

As long as they’re super into whatever you’re planning to do, you’re turned on by the situation. 

T.Max: 

Yeah. And I really just love fellow queerdos. Because I feel like I’m a total weirdo, so when I find those weirdos in the corner of the room, it’s giving each other space to be weird and free. That’s it for the moment and we’ll see where it goes. 

Vanessa: 

I love that, in the space where you’re a novice or entering a new thing, it allows you an open mind like you’re holding it. 

T.Max: 

Yeah, I’m exploring. 

Vanessa: 

I think that has been really helpful for me to go back to repeatedly. I’ve been kinking and queering in my life – are those verbs? – for a long time. I recently realized that I’ve been playing with a partner with one particular role. What if I do it totally differently? It opens up a whole new world. So it’s been helpful to remember to maintain exactly that novice mindset that you’re talking about, regardless of how long you’ve done it. 

T.Max: 

Yeah, beginner’s mindset all the time. Obviously we all have things that we excel at. But if you approach every new thing with that beginner’s mindset, it does something to your brain. It allows you to build new neural pathways. 

And with a beginner’s mindset, it is also much easier to step into new things without worries or expectations. You can certainly have expectations around a dynamic that you’re well-versed in or that your professional life is in. But with something new, it’s okay to be a beginner.

Vanessa: 

For me, I have been submissive for a very long time, I love leaning into that. Lately, when I’m playing with dominance, there’s a lot of giggling that happens but I feel some worry that I’m doing it wrong, but I’m going to try it anyway. 

T.Max: 

Yeah, like I have three different arms. 

Vanessa: 

Yeah. But it’s fun to be in that space of rapid learning and awkwardness. 

T.Max: 

It also just helps with an overarching thing in my life, which is to be a lifelong learner. It’d be boring to just do the same thing. 

Vanessa: 

So you’ve had a lot of different experiences. I feel like a lot of people go out into the dating world with a clear sense of what they want: a partner with XYZ characteristics. I need them to have these five things and then live in a house with a dog. 

It feels like you’re kind of exploring the opposite, like your dating requirement list is chucked out the window, except maybe like a good person. But basically you’re open to trying everything. So in that experience, can you tell me about what are some of the kinks you’ve liked? 

T.Max: 

Oh my god, yes. If the partner has an appropriately-sized hand fisting. And even six months ago, I didn’t think that was a thing. Like I was saying before, it was one finger, two fingers, three. Then all of a sudden it was the whole hand.  On me, on them, yes please, thank you. 

Vanessa: 

So you hadn’t watched porn about fisting 

T.Max: 

Yeah, I hadn’t watched porn about fisting. I hadn’t talked to someone about it. I just tried it and it felt good. I asked, what if we do a little more, just leaning into it in the moment. 

Multiple partners and group sex was also an eye opener for me. I didn’t know that was going to be a thing. Then there’s just so many that come. But being able to have that latitude to explore was just really a hell yes. 

Vanessa: 

Were there some kinks you tried that didn’t quite work out?

T.Max: 

Yeah, at one point my domme was saying that I might be a good candidate for the needle thing you go around your body with, because I liked the feeling of the clothespins and the whip. That’s what made them think I would also like this next one. But it just didn’t quite resonate. 

And I don’t know what it’s called, but also the little prickly thing on a wheel. I know we talked about it a little bit to confirm that it doesn’t cut. But it still felt like I was going to. 

The rest of it, I’ve just been pleasantly surprised by it all. 

I’ve had some adventures where I look in the mirror the next morning, I’m like oh my god. As a lifelong skateboarder, I’ve had some hip marks where it’s just purple and blue, like an ambulance. And I’ve come back from some impact sessions where it looks like that too. And that’s fun. It doesn’t hurt nearly as much as a skateboard wipeout. 

Vanessa: 

I love that too, sometimes I will intentionally make bites on someone’s chest in a way that comes up visible the next day. 

One of the things I was going to say about the needle is that I think it’s cool it was offered by someone who was exploring what they thought you might like based on what you’ve already done. And you were able to give feedback, to say not for me. 

I know we have a friend in common who is into needle play. She has beautiful images going on her body, and it’s really good for her. I agree with you, it wouldn’t be something I want for my body. 

I have also found that there are some kinks I love while I’m aroused, and if I’m not aroused, it seems like way too much and I can’t step into that. Do you ever experience that, things that require a certain space for you?

T.Max: 

Oh yes, there are some things that don’t feel hot that day, even if it was an experience I enjoyed earlier that week. Once again, it’s okay to take your time even if it’s something you think is your jam. It’s okay to hit pause for a second. When you come back to it, if it’s something you end up coming back to, you’re just all the more excited about it. 

Vanessa: 

I feel like that requires some amount of emotional self-awareness for the participants to say that the pause is not a rejection of me. The pause is taking a moment to understand the specifics of the situation, whatever is going on for the person who is asking for the pause. 

You can come back to them and affirm, I still want you. I may not want that particular thing in the moment, but I still want you. 

T.Max: 

Right, it’s no judgement of you. It’s just making my voice heard, having agency in a situation that wasn’t going the way I thought it would. You can always come back to it. You can get untangled from the rope ties. 

That was another hell yes, the ropes. Obviously rope comes in different materials. You get different materials woven in different ways with different textures to do different things. That was pretty monumental for me. One of my partners was talking about going to a rope tying class because it takes a long time to learn those skills. It’s an art unto itself. 

Vanessa: 

I know you talked about not wanting to go into needly, but it sounds like you figured that out before you had needles in your body. Have you ever had an experience where you started something and then it brought up too many things when you tried it? 

T.Max: 

I guess the first time I was tied up. It wasn’t that long ago and it was a partner I had seen before but we didn’t know each other for years. It was my first time being tied up and it felt like a deep vulnerability that comes with that, with a partner that you know and you have a rapport with. But we didn’t really know. 

I knew once this next tie goes in, that’s it, I’m now their prisoner. I’m handcuffed to the bed with one hand and I’m now in a total surrender. I think the surrender can feel light and joyful if the trust feels total and safe. But at that moment, I had a moment of panic. I took a breath and they were very patient with me. 

Vanessa: 

Did you share what you were feeling? 

T.Max: 

Oh yeah. 

Vanessa: 

How did they respond? 

T.Max: 

They were so cool. They just gave me a breath and it turned out to be magic. But it was a lot. 

The part of the whole dynamic of kink is that it gets me out of my and into my body. At that moment, I definitely got out of my body and into my head for a second. I expressed that I felt uncomfortable. I asked, can we talk about this for a second? 

We keep going back to that, it’s okay to hit pause. I didn’t actually say pause, but I was taking a breath. 

Vanessa: 

I feel like you’re touching one of the things that I enjoy about the kink play is that it’s interpersonal play. You can kink on your own through masturbation. But mostly we’re talking about when you’re interacting with a partner or partners. 

Yes, it’s about the ropes, tying and skills, and it’s about trust. How far can we go and what feels safe and comfortable, what is touching on your erotic energy or creative imagination in a way that works? It’s kind of a dance that you’re playing together. 

T.Max: 

It’s absolutely a dance. It’s forever a dance. It takes a lot of emotional intelligence. You don’t just show up and get clubbed over the head with a paddle. There’s a lot of deep understanding that’s required, at least in order to do it in a way that honors both participants. 

Vanessa: 

Another thing I’m hearing from you, when you’re talking about getting into your body, is it brings you into the present moment. It’s similar to what’s called “flow state”, where you are totally focused on what’s happening in the moment. That can be anything, if you really love skateboarding and you’re at a skatepark. 

That flow state allows you to be fully present and can happen in lots of different ways. This adult sexuality is one of the ways that you can access it. 

T.Max: 

The parallels are remarkable. And there are parallels amongst various subcultures in general. It’s been a very interesting journey for sure. 

Vanessa: 

What would you recommend for other folks who are beginning to get into kink or wanting to go deeper? And how did you cultivate this attitude of playfulness, this silly adventure, this approach to kink of diving in? 

T.Max: 

I’ve always been a silly person in general. I’ve never been shy about how silly I am. But in all seriousness, I reached a point in my life where I was looking for more. 

Like I said, I’m a lifelong learner. So I started to educate myself a bit. I looked at what’s out there and read about things. Follow people on Instagram that might catch your attention. I know Instagram’s not the best source of truth in the world, but all these little things help crack the door open. You can peek inside and see what’s in there. If it’s not for you, you can go onto the next thing. 

I’m just mostly a student of where my heart and desire are leading me. That brought me to where I am. I’m just taking my time with it. There’s no rush. So it was more just a slow process of exploring, is this what I really want? Is this really me? 

Finding that little sliver of the queer community was so good to find. It felt like, yay! This is me! It feels good to find your tribe. It feels good to be here. 

There’s so much listening to yourself, taking the time to hear your own desires. I spent a lot of time working with myself right before, mentally, emotionally and physically for years before kinks even showed up in my life. I already knew about my body pretty well. 

Then that first little door cracked open, with a bit of candle wax. But I already had a deep understanding of my personal desires. 

Vanessa: 

I feel like I have gotten excited about a “yes, and” approach. I may or may not be having a threesome coming up in my life soon, and I would apply that “yes, and”. I encourage you to go find something, whether it’s kink, or some other thing in the world that gives you adult play, or just a joy and connection in your life. And jump into that adventure. Let’s be awkward beginners together. 

This has been another edition of A Slut’s Guide to Happiness with your host, Vanessa Cliff, and our beautiful co-star, T.Max. 

Thank you for joining us. You can find us wherever you get your podcasts, including Apple and Spotify, as well as on cliffmediaproductions.com. 

If you’re over the age of 18, you can also check out our video content on our website, cliffmediaproductions.com. 

And most of all, I invite you to join us in the pleasure of being awkwardly human, naked and without pretense. 

Let’s get free.